Works based salvation

[DeaconDean]

Here is another one for you to chew over.

Again, we Baptists have it all wrong.

I cannot believe this man actually got on television and taught that we must have "works of righteousness" in order to be acceptable of God.

The following is the transcript of what was said:

Originally Posted by John Crips

How can faith only save, without the righteous acts of God? That is important for us to know. And when I speak about the righteous acts of Goid, or the righteous works of God, I'm not talking about God doing something for us, but, rather, us doing what God has required of us.

There are works of righteoueness we must do, and we cannot deny this very plain teaching here in Acts chapter 10, verses 34 through 35.

We have here the household of Cornelius over here, and we have Peter being brought unto this household to proclaim the gospel truth. In verses 34 and 35 the scriptures say:

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."

So Peter's perception there of the Gentiles, which remember, up unto this time, had been excluded from the faith. The Gentiles here obtained a man of great great conviction, a man of great works of righteousness at this point in time and his life still needed the Gospel to be preached to him in order for him to become a child of God. He was not saved simply by the works of righteousness, he was not saved simply by the faith he had, he had faith because he sent as he was directed, to call for Peter. So it is important for us to recognize. Now just compare that with the statement we just read in the New Hampshire Confession of Faith:

How can that be? The scriptures teach differently from the doctrines and commands of men.

So there you go folks. We have doctines that are man made and are contrary to the Bible.

And you had best not depend on your faith to save you and make you acceptable to God.

No! You must have "the works of righteousness in order to be acceptable unto God."

And no matter how many times I read those notes, or listen to the lecture, it still comes off sounding like a "works based salvation."

Opinions?

God Bless

Till all are one.

[Psalms2]

Originally Posted by DeaconDean

I cannot believe this man actually got on television and taught that we must have "works of righteousness" in order to be acceptable of God.

Unless he said that he believes that our works alone can save us, I don't see how it conflicts with the Bible. Afterall, Jesus separated the sheep from the goats based on what they did or what they did not do. And all through the Bible it is constantly telling us all the things that we must do to be Holy and righteous. And if there was any doubt about it, James drives the point home with verse 2:24 which says, "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

[wilkette]

Originally Posted by Psalms2

Unless he said that he believes that our works alone can save us, I don't see how it conflicts with the Bible. Afterall, Jesus separated the sheep from the goats based on what they did or what they did not do. And all through the Bible it is constantly telling us all the things that we must do to be Holy and righteous. And if there was any doubt about it, James drives the point home with verse 2:24 which says, "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

How do you reconcile that with Eph 2:8-9 then?

[wilkette]

You have to consider whom James is addressing - people who claim a Christian faith yet have nothing to show for it in the transformation of their lives. He is not saying that works are a necessity for salvation, but rather that true salvation will inevitably invoke a change in one's life and actions. If nothing changes in how you live your life - well, then nothing has changed, and you are likely professing through words what has not truly happened in your heart.

[Pete Martinez]

If salvation were an apple tree the fruit would be proof the tree is an apple tree. The proof someone is a millionaire is shown when all of a sudden the house turns into a mansion and the car turns into a limo. And the proof that someone has been saved will show because they all of a sudden want to please God and do good works for him.

[NewMan99]

Originally Posted by Psalms2

Unless he said that he believes that our works alone can save us, I don't see how it conflicts with the Bible. Afterall, Jesus separated the sheep from the goats based on what they did or what they did not do. And all through the Bible it is constantly telling us all the things that we must do to be Holy and righteous. And if there was any doubt about it, James drives the point home with verse 2:24 which says, "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

Originally Posted by wilkette

How do you reconcile that with Eph 2:8-9 then?

You reconcile it by going on and reading Eph 2:10 and not stopping at verse 9.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God-- 9 not because of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Here we see that faith is not pitted against works, but rather that they work in tandem IN SO FAR AS they are works God prepared beforehand for us to walk in and not just works that are our own doing outside of God or His grace.

[intricatic]

There is a totality of who a person is, which results in the idea that men are saved by Grace, through faith, but that faith results in a change in the individual that can be quantified.

It's putting the cart before the horse to claim that salvation is based on works, though.

[wilkette]

Originally Posted by NewMan99

You reconcile it by going on and reading Eph 2:10 and not stopping at verse 9.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God-- 9 not because of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Here we see that faith is not pitted against works, but rather that they work in tandem IN SO FAR AS they are works God prepared beforehand for us to walk in and not just works that are our own doing outside of God or His grace.

Yes - but to assert that these works are a necessity for salvation rather than a product of it is not line line with Scripture, which was the implication in the quoted message of the OP.

[Psalms2]

Originally Posted by wilkette

How do you reconcile that with Eph 2:8-9 then?

Reconcile what? Whatever you might imagine about me, I didn't say anything that contradicts what is in the Bible. How do you reconcile the fact that Jesus separated the sheep from the goats based on what they did or did not do? I can reconcile it because I believe, as it says in James, if faith doesn't produce good works then it is dead faith. Jesus even says it in another way. Jesus says that you shall know the tree by the fruit that it bears. So I believe that the fruit of good faith is good works.

But don't misquote me or misunderstand me. There is nothing we can do to earn our way into Heaven. It's only Christ's blood that was spilled for us that merits Heaven for us. But we have to be willing to cooperate with Jesus in his plan for our salvation, so he still tells us all the things that he expects us to do to become Holy.

If we say that God doesn't care at all what we do, then we would fall into the heresy of universalism which says that there is no Hell and that everyone is going to Heaven no matter what they did or did not do in life. And of course this is the opposite of what Jesus said about the sheep and the goats.

[Psalms2]

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