Expectations of marriage

[OracleX]

Originally Posted by kissingfish

I was in a serious relationship and almost married the man. But his mother controlled his every move...well, most of the time. There would be times when we would have our time together and he'd forget to call her for a week or sometimes a month. Then she'd call again and he'd completely change. I guess in a marriage I would expect my spouse to think for himself. (I hope you don't mind this single putting in her 2 cents worth here). I am wrong to expect a man to be a man and have the ability to know when his mother is doing something for his benefit and when she is doing something for her own benefit?

No you are not wrong in thinking that. The problem is that when you have been raised in a situation for so long, it takes a while to change ones outlook or methods. It is sad when parents can't let go of their children and let them become adults. It makes it worse when the children don't seem to want to become independent adults.

Hang in there. God has a plan for us all.

[desmalia]

Is it what I expected? Well it's been just over a year, and so far I can say yes, absolutely.
It's been bumps, spills, akward adjustments, tears, disagreements, misunderstandings, hurt feelings, growing, learning, teaching, praying, laughing, laughing, laughing, and so much incredible joy.

My dad was preparing to enter hospice we got married, and passed away two months into our marriage. So I knew we weren't going to have a typical "honeymoon" period. In fact it was really a dark time for the first six months. And then I got really sick for another six months. But all of that has served to bring us closer and give us greater compassion and understanding for each other. Now we're just starting to see some of that long-awaited honeymoon period, which is such a blessing! DH had some expectations crushed about how the early part of our marriage would be. But he adjusted to that pretty quickly.

[Annie]

very interesting discussion so far

[3grands]

One thing that surprised me was successful marriage tips are in the Bible. Here's a few:

putting Yahweh first –

wives respect husbands and husbands love wives. (Book recommendation: Love and Respect by Emerson Eggerichs). I'm not sure women understand respect from men's perspective nor do men understand love from women's perspective.

Ephesians 4:26 "In your anger do not sin": Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27 and do not give the devil a foothold.” One couple agree that they would both apologize before they go to sleep - that's a very wise decision.

Watch out for your finances - this should be the most financial savvy generation there is -with forum, financial calculators, financial info at fingertips, etc.
Pro 7:22 “The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.”

get rid of any unforgiveness

[irishman82]

Let me explain unto you a situation I am in briefly and tell me what must I do or focus on:

My wife and I are currently separated, mainly because of my anger/abusive issues that are currently being dealt with with 100% of my cooperation and willingness. She has gotten the raw end of the deal, however she is giving me a second chance so we work things out.

With this said, I was physically abused when I was a kid and dealt with in the wrong ways, mainly by my father, my mother would start some of these things up then when my father would get involved my mother would feel bad and ask my dad to stop while he was at me.

I explained this problem to my wife as soon as we got married, I was at a stage I did not want to know nothing from my parents, but she kept insisting and bringing them up, that we should keep in touch etc, well I eventually did and started talking to my parents again... this was 4 years ago.

Now 2 months ago, when my wife and I separated because of my physical abuse towards her, she exchanged some IM's with my mother who is in Europe, telling her that I am the way I am because of the way my parents brought me up (a violent person). My parents took offense to that and I heard it from my father on the phone, which is not the thing that bothers me that much.

What bothers me of all of this is that my wife has a flickr account which used to give access to my mom so she could see our daughter, 9 months old - their only grand daughter. As soon as all this happened my wife took the permissions for my family to see my daughter's pictures through flickr.

So I would like everyone to get along, but according to my wife my mother is a manipulative .... and my father a nut job, which... she is probably right, let us not argue about this. But the tables now turn as I am the one now, who begs for things to remain civil like she once did. Only I get the raw end of the deal with that.

I know the bible says I must divorce my parents when I marry my wife, and I have no problem doing that, I didn't want to have anything to do with them, but I do think that this is a bit over the line and would put a lot of pressure of from my conscience if things were done right.

I don't know, I am sure that if my wife were to read this I'd be missing something or misleading you but it is to the best of my ability the accurate truth.

[youngmom4]

Did the abuse start before or after you resumed contact with your parents? If you began abusing her afterwards, chances are your wife blames them and feels betrayed since she "worked" hard to get you to reconcile with them. I have been in a similar situation, where my husband wasn't speaking to his parents, and I kept at him to reconcile with them. We almost split up because of it. Then, when he finally did reconcile with them, they started trying to break our marriage up. Needless to say, I feel very betrayed and don't really want a whole lot to do with them now. So, that is why I suggest that your wife may feel that way. Pray for guidance...I'm sure God will work things out in the end. It may just take some time for your wife to heal.

[irishman82]

I am not sure about when it started if before or after, I do know it was around that period of time. Sorry I hadn't responded earlier, but I must confess that I am rather tired of talking of this issue, though I am the one that brought it up, it's just like I want to put all bad things to the past... but there's just no way

I see your point and I appreciate it, please do let me know if there's anything I can do to make things better other than give time for there are times that even now we irritate each other, and I am honestly tired of arguing and sometimes feel like throwing everything out the window, I just don't think I have the strength some days with this issue. With everything else I have no problem but this issue just wears me down.

[kissingfish]

Hi, this was the thread I meant to post in previously. Now that there are more responses I think I'll add more. First, by reading my previous posts, you can see how I can identify somewhat with your wife, if in fact she feels like your parents were getting involved in your relationship--from her actions I believe it's safe to say she is. As far as her blaming your parents for your being violent *I have to say here too I am sorry you had to suffer through that as a child* ; if you look at statistics they are partially (here's a link for you http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/184894.pdf) though it does not excuse what you did (it looks as though you know that already though).
Back to my point though, as you can see from my previous posts, I avoided a marriage I would have loved to have had because my boyfriend just could not cut the apron ties from his mother and grow up to be a man. I was not going to take that, what woman does not want a real man who can handle his owb life? I can tell you from my side it was invasive and a bit sick at times, this may or may not be how your wife feels.
Also, has your mother ever done anything to your wife for her to be so threatened by her? That would change the situation as well. If my boyfriend's mother had ever done or said anything to me--I can be assured he would have taken HER said and not believed it. It just seems like there is something she's frightened of in this situationm not to mention the other things you pointed out in your post such as your separation and the violence. That's a lot to heap onto one person, perhaps like the previous poster said, it will take time...but it will also take a lot of understanding and prayer-- not just for her but for you as well. Good luck

[irishman82]

Thank you Kissingfish, I really appreciate your response and concern.

Though I know I did something VERY WRONG and I was already getting help for this, with things I was concerned like medication and therapy I had changed a bit till that point, and ever since the separation even more.

I am tried to deal with the situation of my wife/mother issue, and it seems to me like every time I would bring this up it would be to defend my mother or that I was siding with my mother rather than my wife, and I never wanted to give that impression, just to find out what was going on and I'll explain why:

After I had met my wife and married her I explained her that I had some deep wounds with my parents, that I wasn't happy at them or being around them and that she should probably get used to the idea of her not getting to know them or our children for that matter. She, in a healthy way tried to push me towards having some sort of conversation with my family in Europe, periodically I'd start talking to my mom on the phone again and eventually I started talking to my father again, which was very hard for me. I got used to it and everything was moving smoothly, we kept regular contact, I'd say something like once a month or every three weeks we'd talk on the phone then IM or whatever.

In December 2005 We had decided to go to Ireland to see my Grandfather whom I dearly loved and had great respect for, and then take a tour through the rest of the country side... All hotels and everything were already arranged, when my Grandfather said, well you came here to Europe you might as well go spend Christmas with your mom and family in Spain. So we felt we could do that and no one could say no to the old man, we did and had a somewhat ok time, I felt homesick and all that... I was somewhat irritable during a period of time, because going back to Europe I saw a lot of things that I missed and wanted to go back to and probably caused a bit of head aches during our vacation... Anyways, we flew back to Ireland for a day or two then back to the US. Everything seemed fine now, though the only thing that had changed is that now we had a greater bond between my family and I. We spoke of plans, future etc... Some things it was hard to figure out if my wife was ok or uncomfortable but you could only guess... My wife isn't the best at communicating her feelings, which has also become an issue because things and feelings keep coming up from God knows when in what situation, and it makes me feel betrayed or misinformed sometimes.

So yeah I did probably stick together to my parents, my father promised wealth, future and care while here in the US, I was working in a factory making $11 and my wife barely able to scratch $9, we were living at my in laws for our second year, so whilst I might understand that she felt I was kind of hooked up in my mother's apron, I have to say I did not see much of a future here anyways.

April '06 my wife gets pregnant, because my Grandfather is old about 91 years old we decide to phone my parents and spread the news on my side of the family (Europe)with only one month in to the pregnancy, we keep it low profile here (you know still living at the in laws...) We decide we really need to move out of there and we decide to announce it as soon as we move out. Her parents one night at dinner ask her if she's pregnant, while I'm about to join them. They find out, and all of a sudden not only we wanted to move out but felt rushed to move out, we were out by June 24th with not enough time to look for a decent place (when we sign the lease for a $975 dollar a month duplex making the money that I said above)

My neighbor offers me a job and trade I take which I currently have and start making more money. My wife would stop working as soon as she delivered and wasn't certain on what to do with herself at this point, I give her the option to stay at home and take care of our daughter, that she may cover some expenses with unemployment, when the six months of unemployment are done, she can contribute with her stock money. And I'm not talking about being in a relationship where 50/50 had to be paid but anything I couldn't cover she could take over which wasn't that much.

Overtime starts, with it I get home exhausted after 50 and 55 hour weeks, I sit in front of the PC playing games or trolling on forums, I am being selfish yes, I know I am wrong to do this and not proud. The relationship deteriorates because of my gaming addiction and lack of help. We had an encounter in which I was tired of her yelling at me and not giving me space, so in a rage I got up and broke a chair, which only escalated to her screeching and yelling and swearing at me, I was ashamed and intimidated, remember that my neighbor next door aka my boss could probably hear all the yelling, so I grabbed my wife by the arm and told her to stop, she knows I'm getting violent now so she attempts to go upstairs, I come behind her and grab her, then I pull her down and put my hand in her mouth asking her to stop yelling, according to her I was strangling her, that was never reported or dealt with... Please have in mind though I started the paragraph about the hours I was working I don't blame my behavior on anything else but me.

January 03 we have our daughter, with it come the sleepless nights, she can stay at home I get up at 3 am and go to work, making enough money to support most of the expenses I am a happy daddy, nothing made me happier than to be able to provide for my family and go home and have them waiting for me after a hard day at work... However I still dedicate a lot of time to the PC, more than I should to the family, though a couple of arguments here and there I want to dedicate my focus on something positive, so I go to a psychologist and try to figure out if I have ADD or any learning disabilities, they examine my coconut, and the Doc comes one day saying, Ryan you are fine, you can go to school, however you seem to have some anxiety disorders and by the initial test you took here it seems that you were abused when you were a kid. Would you like to talk about it? - so then they schedule me with a psychiatrist and therapist and start getting help on my anger, anxiety etc and that's where you picked up the rest.

Now briefly going back to mother/wife issue... I get confused, my wife hugs my mother and everything seems fine right up till when she leaves in the airport to go back home, once she is gone and we get home I find out she rips on my mother with her sister through yahoo IM, claiming that my mother had been very pushy about us moving to Europe, and my wife was taken advantage of my mother at a time when my wife was vulnerable and fragile because she was depressed because she couldn't get a job. So fine, forget that.

When I got arrested and brought to jail for this battery I had recently 2 months ago, and I got out my mother called me worried and explained me that my wife told her everything, but she also added, Your son is the way he is because of the way you raised him and abused him... Basically calling my parents a failure for everything they did, something I wouldn't of done myself and I had more right to than anyone else... and my wife had nothing to gain nor loose from saying that but just opening a can of worms. If she did I'd like to know what you think... Forget that too.

Now, my mother used to be able to watch pictures of our daughter on a flickr account, and my wife erased her permissions to see their only grand daughter, when I asked her why would she do such thing, she said "I'm afraid that your parents might photo shop a picture of our daughter and make a fake passport and kidnap her to Europe". My jaw hit the floor here, I am not trying to protect my parents but just rationalize and be civil and instead of having boundaries drawn all I see it's either all or nothing kind of attitude.

There's probably more about my parents that I havn't said but I am dealing with that know and on how to face some of the things they did to me or how should I talk to them or if at all.

But so far I am careless about some things right now.

[kissingfish]

Hi Irish,
I took me a while to think of what to write after reading all of that. Honestly, my first reaction was to not respond because it was overwhelming. I did a lot of praying and I have found the power from God to put some things into words that I hope will be constructive. Not to put your situation in a worse light; but it made me praise God that I was not in your wife's position. I will do my best to respond with an open mind and heart. What I say may or may not pertain to your situation and you may or may not agree with what I have to say. I am not going to pretend to know both sides nor that what you say is 100% true or 100% false, this is just my feelings from what I've read.

I am tried to deal with the situation of my wife/mother issue, and it seems to me like every time I would bring this up it would be to defend my mother or that I was siding with my mother rather than my wife, and I never wanted to give that impression, just to find out what was going on and I'll explain why

Always defending your mother? I know when my boyfriend did this I felt betrayed, unloved, unheard and unimportant.

After I had met my wife and married her I explained her that I had some deep wounds with my parents, that I wasn't happy at them or being around them and that she should probably get used to the idea of her not getting to know them or our children for that matter. She, in a healthy way tried to push me towards having some sort of conversation with my family in Europe, periodically I'd start talking to my mom on the phone again and eventually I started talking to my father again, which was very hard for me. I got used to it and everything was moving smoothly, we kept regular contact, I'd say something like once a month or every three weeks we'd talk on the phone then IM or whatever.

She probably did not know that your mother was manipulative (you have stated as much earlier) and wanted people to get along. I had no idea when I started dating my boyfriend how much hurt some one's mother can cause their child and anyone who loves their child. Putting one's parents first is commendable so long as it does not ruin your life. I did not let my boyfriend's mother ruin mine--I got out.

Some things it was hard to figure out if my wife was ok or uncomfortable but you could only guess... My wife isn't the best at communicating her feelings, which has also become an issue because things and feelings keep coming up from God knows when in what situation, and it makes me feel betrayed or misinformed sometimes.

You felt betrayed? How must your wife feel not being supported and not believed in deference to your mother? Are you sure you were listening to her? I can tell you from experience there is no way to compete with some one's mother when they have a griphold on their child. I eventually gave up trying to get through to my boyfriend because my side was never right and he put mommy first--end of story everytime. Or do you think your wife might have felt frightened to express her dislike of the situation in fear of angering you? Maybe she was trying to walk a line and make everyone happy? Could it be a bit of both? Only you and your wife can know that answer.

So yeah I did probably stick together to my parents, my father promised wealth, future and care while here in the US, I was working in a factory making $11 and my wife barely able to scratch $9, we were living at my in laws for our second year, so whilst I might understand that she felt I was kind of hooked up in my mother's apron, I have to say I did not see much of a future here anyways.

April '06 my wife gets pregnant, because my Grandfather is old about 91 years old we decide to phone my parents and spread the news on my side of the family (Europe)with only one month in to the pregnancy, we keep it low profile here (you know still living at the in laws...) We decide we really need to move out of there and we decide to announce it as soon as we move out. Her parents one night at dinner ask her if she's pregnant, while I'm about to join them. They find out, and all of a sudden not only we wanted to move out but felt rushed to move out, we were out by June 24th with not enough time to look for a decent place (when we sign the lease for a $975 dollar a month duplex making the money that I said above)

It sounds like you blame your in-laws for giving you a place to stay for two years. I would think it was not the nicest thing to do not to share your good news with them when you shared it with your own parents. You almost seem to be blaming them for you having to move to a place you did not want to go. After living with them for two years did they charge less rent? You may have felt rushed to move out but that is the fault of your wife and you...you should have looked harder for a less expensive place, if you both signed a lease then you both should have known the consequences. How does this factor into what happened? I guess here it just sounds like you are looking for some sympathy...maybe I'm wrong.

My neighbor offers me a job and trade I take which I currently have and start making more money. My wife would stop working as soon as she delivered and wasn't certain on what to do with herself at this point, I give her the option to stay at home and take care of our daughter, that she may cover some expenses with unemployment, when the six months of unemployment are done, she can contribute with her stock money. And I'm not talking about being in a relationship where 50/50 had to be paid but anything I couldn't cover she could take over which wasn't that much.

You gave her the option of staying home? Only after you got a new job or after she delivered? What was the plan before that? Again, it sounds like you planned poorly. Did she not have any thoughts on what she could do? Again, it sounds like BOTH of you planned poorly. Who was taking care of the baby while you were working? That's a job too...and from farther down it looks like you were not doing much when you came home...so you're right...it does not look like a 50/50 relationship. It seems to me money is a big issue for you...more important than your wife and what is really going on. It makes me think of the rich man in the story of Lazarus. Again, I may or may not be right.

Overtime starts, with it I get home exhausted after 50 and 55 hour weeks, I sit in front of the PC playing games or trolling on forums, I am being selfish yes, I know I am wrong to do this and not proud. The relationship deteriorates because of my gaming addiction and lack of help. We had an encounter in which I was tired of her yelling at me and not giving me space, so in a rage I got up and broke a chair, which only escalated to her screeching and yelling and swearing at me, I was ashamed and intimidated, remember that my neighbor next door aka my boss could probably hear all the yelling, so I grabbed my wife by the arm and told her to stop, she knows I'm getting violent now so she attempts to go upstairs, I come behind her and grab her, then I pull her down and put my hand in her mouth asking her to stop yelling, according to her I was strangling her, that was never reported or dealt with... Please have in mind though I started the paragraph about the hours I was working I don't blame my behavior on anything else but me.

Here I really don't know what to say. You put everything in front of your relationship with your wife; your mother, your work, your money your games... If I read correctly you did this to your wife while she was pregnant. It's disgusting to think about if she weren't...but if she was pregnant when you did that you should really not just dust that off as "one of those things." You put your hand over her mouth and she stood there? If she was that upset? I don't know what to think there...but you sound like you were terrorizing her. I'm going to add a link at the end of this about the cycle of violence...I hope you look at it. If she was indeed pregnant she should have left you right then, no one has a right to harm some one like that and an unborn child is innocent and does not need that kind of stress and violence. You say you don't blame your behavior on anything but you...but from some of your words you don't think what you did was that bad. that's somewhat troubling.

January 03 we have our daughter, with it come the sleepless nights, she can stay at home I get up at 3 am and go to work, making enough money to support most of the expenses I am a happy daddy, nothing made me happier than to be able to provide for my family and go home and have them waiting for me after a hard day at work... However I still dedicate a lot of time to the PC, more than I should to the family, though a couple of arguments here and there I want to dedicate my focus on something positive, so I go to a psychologist and try to figure out if I have ADD or any learning disabilities, they examine my coconut, and the Doc comes one day saying, Ryan you are fine, you can go to school, however you seem to have some anxiety disorders and by the initial test you took here it seems that you were abused when you were a kid. Would you like to talk about it? - so then they schedule me with a psychiatrist and therapist and start getting help on my anger, anxiety etc and that's where you picked up the rest.

Now briefly going back to mother/wife issue... I get confused, my wife hugs my mother and everything seems fine right up till when she leaves in the airport to go back home, once she is gone and we get home I find out she rips on my mother with her sister through yahoo IM, claiming that my mother had been very pushy about us moving to Europe, and my wife was taken advantage of my mother at a time when my wife was vulnerable and fragile because she was depressed because she couldn't get a job. So fine, forget that.

So let me get this straight. You did not do anything in between that time and the time your mother showed up? No violence or yelling...(look at the cycle--you'll see that's part of it) Then you brought your mother into your home. Some one who is a manipulator and if she claims your mother was being pushy...how do you know she was not? Did you spend lots of time with them? Did you spend all of the time with your mother alone and leave her out of things? How do you know she was depressed that she could not a get a job? Perhaps she was depressed because she was living in an abusive situation with a new baby and to add to it a person who she knew got into the middle of things was there with you. In that situation...I have no idea what I would have done. I am surprised your wife is still sane...is she??

When I got arrested and brought to jail for this battery I had recently 2 months ago, and I got out my mother called me worried and explained me that my wife told her everything, but she also added, Your son is the way he is because of the way you raised him and abused him... Basically calling my parents a failure for everything they did, something I wouldn't of done myself and I had more right to than anyone else... and my wife had nothing to gain nor loose from saying that but just opening a can of worms. If she did I'd like to know what you think... Forget that too.

Did you look at the link in my previous post about child abuse and what it does to kids when they're adults? Also, if your mother was talking to your wife right after all of this I can imagine your wife was in shock..are you seriously going to hold that against her after you repeatedly abused her? Again, that's a troubling thought and I hope I am wrong about that feeling.

Now, my mother used to be able to watch pictures of our daughter on a flickr account, and my wife erased her permissions to see their only grand daughter, when I asked her why would she do such thing, she said "I'm afraid that your parents might photo shop a picture of our daughter and make a fake passport and kidnap her to Europe". My jaw hit the floor here, I am not trying to protect my parents but just rationalize and be civil and instead of having boundaries drawn all I see it's either all or nothing kind of attitude.

Seriously, after all that you have written, the photos seems inconsequntial. It looks like you have bigger issues that need to be dealt with. If you want to deal with your mother first, deal with your mother first, but if your wife is anything like me (though I doubt she is as she's still with you and has actually put up with all of this) I would not expect her to be around when you are done dealing with your mother. People can only deal with so much and it looks like there has been a lot to deal with.

But so far I am careless about some things right now.

Are you really careless about your wife? Then you should just let her go. You may not care about her but stop terrorizing her. If you do care about her...get your priorities straight. You sound very conflicted and confused. Is there anyone you can talk to about this? Other Christians in your church? Perhaps a church elder, pastor or priest? I know you may not like what I said, but as I said I prayed long and hard about whether or not to respond and how to respond. I only hope that God gives you the wisdom you need to deal with this situation. I will be praying for you, your wife and child. Here is the link about the cycle of abuse. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_abuse I hope it can give you some insight. God Bless you.

ETA: I hope some others can respond to this. I don't know if I'm being too harsh having dealt with my boyfriend's mother.