Value and The Problem of Moral Evil

[intricatic]

To be blunt and straight to the point: Why would a good God allow such a horrible thing such as rape happen to an otherwise faithful and good believer? Further, why would a good God allow such a thing as rape occur to an unbeliever? What value does evil have in relation to God, and how does this play into His plan for His creation?

Does it make God somehow less "good" if He permits such evil to happen to people? I know the obvious argument is that God has given us moral free-agency, or freewill, which is the natural source of all evil in men. But what does it say about God if God allows things such as this to happen, being all powerful? Or is God not all powerful?

To put another spin on this: How should this topic be addressed when dealing with an unbeliever who lost their faith due to this very question, after having been raped or having some other horribly traumatic experience?

Also: How would this be addressed in apologetic fashion - in context of philosophy?

[Pete Martinez]

Well quite a few, actually, the question is... will he listen?
Joseph- Enslaved and sold by his brothers, imprisoned for several years, faithfully serves God all those years and becomes Pharoah of Egypt, saves everyone from a seven year famine, forgives his brothers as indicated by this verse...
Gen 50:20-But as for you, ye thought evil against me; [but] God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as [it is] this day, to save much people alive.
Job- Tried by God when satan indicates that Job only serves him because God gives him excess provision. satan is given permission by God to test Job in any way, with the exception that he is not allowed to be killed. Loses all property, sons, and daughters. Covered in boils and sores in entire body. All friends torment him by accusing him of grievous sin. Wife tells him to curse God and die. Job stays faithful, wavers a bit which leads to an amazing account of how large and powerful God is and how small we are. Job repents and is restored double.
Christ- Born to save sinners and to die for those he loves. Hated by some. Forsaken at the cross by his apostles. Conquers sin and death and has inherited everything that will ever be.

There are more, WAY more, but those are the ones that come to mind. The real mark of a Christian is where he goes when adversity hits. You know who they are because one will grip Christ with all his being and the other will curse, spit, and run away. That doesn't mean that running away from him immediately means you never were his, he'll go to great lengths to grab hold of those that belong to him.

[Emmanuel]

Originally Posted by intricatic

To be blunt and straight to the point: Why would a good God allow such a horrible thing such as rape happen to an otherwise faithful and good believer? Further, why would a good God allow such a thing as rape occur to an unbeliever? What value does evil have in relation to God, and how does this play into His plan for His creation?

I think like Pete says the best answer can be found in Job,were Satan accuses him twice before God, by virtue of us being Christians we stand directly in Satan's line of fire, he will do anything and indeed try everything to bring us down, he will probe our hearts looking for weaknesses that he can use against us. Take Job's response when calamity strikes:

Job 3:24 For my sighing cometh before I eat, And my groanings are poured out like water.
Job 3:25 For the thing which I fear cometh upon me, And that which I am afraid of cometh unto me.
Job 3:26 I am not at ease, neither am I quiet, neither have I rest; But trouble cometh.

It could be that Job had these fears all along as it is evidenced when he prays for his children fearing that they may have sinned in someway, or he may have developed his fears as a result of the rapid sequence of events, one happening led him to fear the worst but in any case the Satan capitalized on this and uses it against him. Like Paul says we wrestle not against flesh and blood
Eph 6:12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

To start with we are under attack from the physical realm by evil men but also from the spiritual realm, Satan will seek to afflict us in some way, the whole value system of this world is against us and guess what the prince of darkness himself is behind the wheel. Further Paul said we are not of this world but still we live in this world, otherwise we would have to leave this world.

But as for the burning question of why God allows such things, well i HONESTLY do not know, but my conclusion is this:

Firstly: Gold can not be refined without going through fire, if need be multiple times.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations(also TRIALS);
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
Jas 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

Now we can not have half baked Christians populating the streets of heaven can we, we have to prove our salt and worth.

Secondly: We are hated for who we are, Christ said if they hated me they will hate you too.
Joh 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


Thirdly: The fall of man, Adam was given all authority on the earth, he was to rule as God's representative on earth, but when he sinned, he ceded that authority to Satan who was more that quick and happy to hijack the who plan of creation, thats why he is called the prince and ruler of this world. Basically i see us living in his backyard with a large bulls eye saying Christian on our backs and it is only by Gods grace that the whole world has not collapsed in total.

Thats my take on the whole situation, I may be wrong and am open to suggestions.

[seeker]

Don't ever believe that a person resists God because of pain. Many will use this as an excuse to remain independant of God but the Bible says there are two reasons why people refuse the Truth and they are pride and that they prefer the dark ...there is something in their life they refuse to see in the Light of Christ. I was raped 10 years ago and for a while it destroyed my life but I would never use the pain I felt as a way to cover up the pride that God had to deal with in me in order for me to submit to Him. the next time someone asks why God tolerates evil actions in this world tell them because He wanted to give them a chance to repent. Because if we were all held to the law then we would all be dead but because of His Grace we all have the opportunity to repent. I knew even after I had been raped that if I were to dare be angry at God for allowing it I would have to be angry at God for allowing me to live because I have certainly been guilty in my life of hurting others (maybe not to this degree) but who is going to try and save their soul on an argument of degree ......not me. Thank God He has it all worked out.

seeker

[intricatic]

I had always taken it to be the ultimate distinction between God and men - even Old Testament examples, where God commands men to kill other men, or women, or children, is an expression of that distinction. God knows the heart better than we can ever assume to - and when God makes an ordination like that, He has a good reason to do so (which is caused by the hardness of the hearts of men).

So, when bad things happen, it's a testament to the goodness of God because God was willing to die on a cross to save us, even though we're capable of doing the very things that caused so much grief in our lives. Through things that one might consider bad, we grow further in faith, also, because God has given us promises that we know He's reliable enough to fulfill. Not promises of material happiness, but of an eternal reward beyond our material desires of today. I know that I personally cling harder to God when I'm struggling, not because I want to, but because I know I can rely on Him to pull me through it more than I can rely on any person in my life.

[Aletheia]

"Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy." (James5:11)